I was about to shoot the approach into MYF when they closed the field this morning.

When I did get to land there was a very broken C-182 on the side of Runway 23.

Any word on what happened?

Paul

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wrote:
> I was about to shoot the approach into MYF when they closed the field this morning.
>
> When I did get to land there was a very broken C-182 on the side of Runway 23.
>
> Any word on what happened?
>
> Paul

This should help you.

http://www.kfmb.com/story.php?id=76584

The LiveATC feed for that area is down, so there's nothing in
the archives for it, and the SNA feed is too far north. But that
article should help.

Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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In article >,
A Guy Called Tyketto > wrote:
>
> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
>of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?
>

We discussed pilot age on the internal newsgroups of my ISP after
Scott Crossfield's crash, and the general feeling was he was too
old to fly.

The general feeling was "They let 84-year-olds pilot planes?" No
specific age cut off was mentioned, but other then Crossfield/Hoover
types, the general feeling was 80+ was too old.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

wrote)
>I was about to shoot the approach into MYF when they closed the field this
>morning.


http://www.airnav.com/airport/KMYF
(MYF) Montgomery Field Airport
San Diego, California, USA


"Mont"black

"John Clear" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> A Guy Called Tyketto > wrote:
>>
>> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
>>of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?
>>
>
> We discussed pilot age on the internal newsgroups of my ISP after
> Scott Crossfield's crash, and the general feeling was he was too
> old to fly.
>
> The general feeling was "They let 84-year-olds pilot planes?" No
> specific age cut off was mentioned, but other then Crossfield/Hoover
> types, the general feeling was 80+ was too old.
>
> John
> --
> John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/
>

That's why we have physicals and biannual flight reviews. To determine if we
are fit to fly. Flunk either one and you're grounded. Much more appropriate
than an arbitrary limit. Heaven knows that getting some arbitrary,
government mandated limit changed would be darned near impossible.

I can see it now... Someone discovers the fountain of youth and provides
the magic elixir to the world's entire population. It freezes their physical
abilities at 30 years of age, and enables them to continue improving their
mental function until whatever untimely accident or illness ends their life.
There could be millions of 100 plus year olds who are in the shape of a 30
year old with many times the knowledge, life experience, and mental ability.
Unfortunately, none of them could be airline pilots due to the Age 60
rule...

KB

John Clear wrote:

> In article >,
> A Guy Called Tyketto > wrote:
>
>> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
>>of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?
>>
>
>
> We discussed pilot age on the internal newsgroups of my ISP after
> Scott Crossfield's crash, and the general feeling was he was too
> old to fly.
>
> The general feeling was "They let 84-year-olds pilot planes?" No
> specific age cut off was mentioned, but other then Crossfield/Hoover
> types, the general feeling was 80+ was too old.

As long as Congress has the same age limit. :-)


Matt

>
> That's why we have physicals and biannual flight reviews. To determine if
we
> are fit to fly. Flunk either one and you're grounded. Much more
appropriate
> than an arbitrary limit. Heaven knows that getting some arbitrary,
> government mandated limit changed would be darned near impossible.
>
> I can see it now... Someone discovers the fountain of youth and provides
> the magic elixir to the world's entire population. It freezes their
physical
> abilities at 30 years of age, and enables them to continue improving their
> mental function until whatever untimely accident or illness ends their
life.
> There could be millions of 100 plus year olds who are in the shape of a
30
> year old with many times the knowledge, life experience, and mental
ability.
> Unfortunately, none of them could be airline pilots due to the Age 60
> rule...
>
You've summed it up rather well.

In article >,
(John Clear) wrote:

> In article >,
> A Guy Called Tyketto > wrote:
> >
> > Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
> >of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?
> >
>
> We discussed pilot age on the internal newsgroups of my ISP after
> Scott Crossfield's crash, and the general feeling was he was too
> old to fly.
>
> The general feeling was "They let 84-year-olds pilot planes?" No
> specific age cut off was mentioned, but other then Crossfield/Hoover
> types, the general feeling was 80+ was too old.

Nonsense! I have a friend, who was chief pilot for Eastern, who is still
feisty and flies at 90! Another cohort of his still flies his Bonanza at
100!

A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
> of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?

What the general public thinks should not be the basis of any age
restrictions on flying.

Pilots slide off the runway all the time. Why is age not brought up
when they are young, but suddenly a factor when they are old?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

John Clear writes:

> We discussed pilot age on the internal newsgroups of my ISP after
> Scott Crossfield's crash, and the general feeling was he was too
> old to fly.
>
> The general feeling was "They let 84-year-olds pilot planes?" No
> specific age cut off was mentioned, but other then Crossfield/Hoover
> types, the general feeling was 80+ was too old.

Why is 80+ "too old"?

More generally, why do people consistently believe that anyone
significantly younger is "too young" to do many things, and anyone
significantly older is "too old" to do many things? Age really
doesn't matter that much.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

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Mxsmanic > wrote:
> A Guy Called Tyketto writes:
>
>> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
>> of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?
>
> What the general public thinks should not be the basis of any age
> restrictions on flying.

I never said it did. Re-read the first part of that sentence.
It says:

"Not that it should be a factor".

Sometimes I wonder if you put up an argument just because you
can. I also do wonder if it is easier to clap with one hand than it is
to argue with you.

> Pilots slide off the runway all the time. Why is age not brought up
> when they are young, but suddenly a factor when they are old?

Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
impulse. It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
tend to get slower as the body ages. Think about that the next time
you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
than speed limit on the road.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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"A Guy Called Tyketto" > wrote in message
et...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Mxsmanic > wrote:
>> A Guy Called Tyketto writes:
>>
>>> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
>>> of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?
>>
>> What the general public thinks should not be the basis of any age
>> restrictions on flying.
>
> I never said it did. Re-read the first part of that sentence.
> It says:
>
> "Not that it should be a factor".
>
> Sometimes I wonder if you put up an argument just because you
> can. I also do wonder if it is easier to clap with one hand than it is
> to argue with you.
>
>> Pilots slide off the runway all the time. Why is age not brought up
>> when they are young, but suddenly a factor when they are old?
>
> Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
> impulse. It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
> tend to get slower as the body ages. Think about that the next time
> you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
> than speed limit on the road.
>
> BL.

I suddenly have this really funny image of looking through the Citroen ahead
of me and being able to only see a Beret...

I wonder how the phrase "Great, I'm stuck behind 'A Hat'" translates?

Jay B

In article >,
Matt Whiting > wrote:
>> The general feeling was "They let 84-year-olds pilot planes?" No
>> specific age cut off was mentioned, but other then Crossfield/Hoover
>> types, the general feeling was 80+ was too old.
>
>As long as Congress has the same age limit. :-)

Works for me. They should at least test for a pulse...

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

Howdy!

In article >,
A Guy Called Tyketto > wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Mxsmanic > wrote:
>> A Guy Called Tyketto writes:
>>
>>> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
>>> of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?
>>
>> What the general public thinks should not be the basis of any age
>> restrictions on flying.
>
> I never said it did. Re-read the first part of that sentence.

....and you weren't accused of saying that it does. In addition,
disclaimer notwithstanding, you did muse out loud about the age of
the pilot. If it was irrelevant, why did you bring it up?

>It says:
>
> "Not that it should be a factor".

immediately followed with a "but" and the introduction.
>
> Sometimes I wonder if you put up an argument just because you
>can. I also do wonder if it is easier to clap with one hand than it is
>to argue with you.

With this unexpected statement, it suggests that you are judging the
speaker instead of the words. Mxsmanic made a perfectly reasonable
statement that spoke to your musing and question. It does not merit
your tone of response.
>
>> Pilots slide off the runway all the time. Why is age not brought up
>> when they are young, but suddenly a factor when they are old?
>
> Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
>impulse. It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
>tend to get slower as the body ages. Think about that the next time
>you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
>than speed limit on the road.

....but the youngsters don't have the same depth of experience to
avoid getting into fixes where those reflexes are tested. Think about
it the next time some hotshot comes flying up on you in heavy traffic
doing 30km over the "flow of traffic".

yours,
Michael


--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix narrowwares
Bowie, MD, USA | http://whitewolfandphoenix.com
Proud member of the SCA Internet Whitewash Squad

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Michael Houghton > wrote:
> Howdy!
>
Yo.

>> I never said it did. Re-read the first part of that sentence.
>
> ...and you weren't accused of saying that it does. In addition,
> disclaimer notwithstanding, you did muse out loud about the age of
> the pilot. If it was irrelevant, why did you bring it up?

Because with this incident happening, the public is going to
take that into account to demand something to be done. They are going
to wonder why someone his age still has his ticket, and to keep their
skies safe, will lobby for some sort of cap on a pilot's age. I
personally don't care how old the guy was, nor do I care for any age
limit. The guy could be going on his 180s and flying, and I really
wouldn't care. More power to him, and I hope when I get that old, I can
still fly. But the general public won't think that. That is why I
brought it up.

>>It says:
>>
>> "Not that it should be a factor".
>
> immediately followed with a "but" and the introduction.

See above.
>>
>> Sometimes I wonder if you put up an argument just because you
>>can. I also do wonder if it is easier to clap with one hand than it is
>>to argue with you.
>
> With this unexpected statement, it suggests that you are judging the
> speaker instead of the words. Mxsmanic made a perfectly reasonable
> statement that spoke to your musing and question. It does not merit
> your tone of response.
>>
>>> Pilots slide off the runway all the time. Why is age not brought up
>>> when they are young, but suddenly a factor when they are old?
>>
>> Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
>>impulse. It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
>>tend to get slower as the body ages. Think about that the next time
>>you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
>>than speed limit on the road.
>
> ...but the youngsters don't have the same depth of experience to
> avoid getting into fixes where those reflexes are tested. Think about
> it the next time some hotshot comes flying up on you in heavy traffic
> doing 30km over the "flow of traffic".

If Driving:
If they are doing that, when I look in my mirrors, I generally
see that they are being followed by police who are pulling them over.

If Flying:
Depending on what airspace I am in, that will be ATC's
responsibility, as they would be responsible for separation of
aircraft. I would also hope that they'd get a dressing down from them
for pulling what they're trying to pull.

BL.
- - --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF
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A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

>
> Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
> impulse. It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
> tend to get slower as the body ages.

How much flying have you actually done? Anyone making rapid control
movements on a 182 has other issues, wouldn't you think? Sure and
steady works better for me!

> Think about that the next time
> you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
> than speed limit on the road.

When was the last time the senior citizen had a medical review or a
bi-annual driving review?

I'm 40, and I'm sure nobody my age has recently run off a runway... <G>

A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

> Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
> impulse.

Not if you're a good pilot. If you need fast reflexes to get out of
trouble, you were already in trouble long ago.

It reminds me of something taught in driving and motorcycle classes:
there's no point in having your foot over the brake pedal or your hand
on the brake lever when you enter an intersection, because if you
don't know whether or not you'll need the brake, you're entering the
intersection unsafely in the first place.

Young people may need reflexes because they don't have the experience
to avoid dangerous situations. People with more experience don't need
the reflexes, because they can avoid danger to begin with.

> It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
> tend to get slower as the body ages.

See above.

> Think about that the next time
> you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
> than speed limit on the road.

That has nothing to do with reflexes, and most senior citizens don't
drive abnormally slowly.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Michael Houghton writes:

> ...but the youngsters don't have the same depth of experience to
> avoid getting into fixes where those reflexes are tested. Think about
> it the next time some hotshot comes flying up on you in heavy traffic
> doing 30km over the "flow of traffic".

Exactly.

And, actually, experience often isn't related to age, anyway, since
people don't start flying at birth. But the key to flying, or
driving, or cycling, or skiing, or doing much of anything safely is to
know enough to avoid danger, rather than trying to deal with it like a
cowboy when you stumble carelessly upon it.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> It reminds me of something taught in driving and motorcycle classes:
> there's no point in having your foot over the brake pedal or your hand
> on the brake lever when you enter an intersection, because if you
> don't know whether or not you'll need the brake, you're entering the
> intersection unsafely in the first place.
>

Don't know where you heard that, but that's nonesense. I've been
riding high performance motorcycles for a long time, have taken
numerous classes, and have done many track days. It is very common
knowledge in the motorcyling community that one should "cover" (have
their fingers over and ready to use) the front brake at all times.
It's something that a new motorcycle rider is trained to do, and
eventually it becomes an instinct that you don't even have to think
about.

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...

> And, actually, experience often isn't related to age, anyway, since
> people don't start flying at birth. But the key to flying, or
> driving, or cycling, or skiing, or doing much of anything safely is to
> know enough to avoid danger, rather than trying to deal with it like a
> cowboy when you stumble carelessly upon it.

I read something interesting some months back about age vs. the likelihood
of being involved in an aircraft accident.

The article said that assuming comparable flight experience, someone who
started flying earlier in life was less likely to be involved in an accident
than someone who started later in life. In other words, if you compared two
40-year-old pilots with 1,000 hours of flying experience the person who
started flying at 25 and who had accumulated 1,000 hours of experience over
15 years was less likely to be involved in an accident than the person who
started flying at 35 and had accumulated 1,000 hours of flight time in 5
years.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the statistic but it is interesting.

BDS

writes:

> Don't know where you heard that, but that's nonesense.

In other words, you disagree. It made good sense to me.

> It is very common
> knowledge in the motorcyling community that one should "cover" (have
> their fingers over and ready to use) the front brake at all times.

But you're just as likely to have to use the throttle; are you ready
with that as well?

The instructors I had made it clear that you're supposed to know what
you are getting into _before_ you get into it. And once you know, you
don't need the brake, because you know that the way is clear.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

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Mxsmanic > wrote:
> A Guy Called Tyketto writes:
>
>> Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
>> impulse.
>
> Not if you're a good pilot. If you need fast reflexes to get out of
> trouble, you were already in trouble long ago.

Which was my point. Could this poor fellow have been in trouble
long before he took the flight that day? I don't know. No-one knows or
will know until the NTSB/FAA investigates and comes to a conclusion.
That was what I was alluding to about age versus reflexes. As good a
pilot is or can be, that problem still has a possibility of arising the
more the body ages.

> It reminds me of something taught in driving and motorcycle classes:
> there's no point in having your foot over the brake pedal or your hand
> on the brake lever when you enter an intersection, because if you
> don't know whether or not you'll need the brake, you're entering the
> intersection unsafely in the first place.

Don't know where they got that from to teach you, but it is
absolute ********.

http://www.advanceddrivers.com/Safety-Tips.htm#traffic-lights

See that section there about Covering the Brake.

> Young people may need reflexes because they don't have the experience
> to avoid dangerous situations. People with more experience don't need
> the reflexes, because they can avoid danger to begin with.

Agreed.
>> It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
>> tend to get slower as the body ages.
>
> See above.
>
>> Think about that the next time
>> you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
>> than speed limit on the road.
>
> That has nothing to do with reflexes, and most senior citizens don't
> drive abnormally slowly.

Indirectly, it does. With the incident in question (the crash),
it all depends on the condition of the pilot, the possible issue that
caused the state for the incident to occur, and the reaction time the
pilot had to correct the plane to avoid the incident. The reaction time
is where the reflexes come in, both physically and mentally.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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BDS wrote:

>I read something interesting some months back about age vs. the likelihood
>of being involved in an aircraft accident.
>
>The article said that assuming comparable flight experience, someone who
>started flying earlier in life was less likely to be involved in an accident
>than someone who started later in life. In other words, if you compared two
>40-year-old pilots with 1,000 hours of flying experience the person who
>started flying at 25 and who had accumulated 1,000 hours of experience over
>15 years was less likely to be involved in an accident than the person who
>started flying at 35 and had accumulated 1,000 hours of flight time in 5
>years.
>I can't vouch for the accuracy of the statistic but it is interesting.
>
>
I resemble that remark! (sort of)

I started flying when I was 25, I am now in my early 50's with 1500+ hours.
Back then, the pre requisites for an instrument rating were minimum 250
hours. I started may instrument training as soon as I could and got it
five years after my private.
I can tell you that instrument flying is easier now because I have 20
years and 1500+ hours of experience.
As one gets older, the way one learns changes.
When you are young, you are used to drinking from a fire hose and can
hold your water longer (in more ways than one).
As you get older, you have to drink more slowly and more often to retain
the same amount.

(Just another beer analogy for the regulars.)

In article >,
B A R R Y > wrote:

> A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:
>
> >
> > Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
> > impulse. It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
> > tend to get slower as the body ages.
>
> How much flying have you actually done? Anyone making rapid control
> movements on a 182 has other issues, wouldn't you think? Sure and
> steady works better for me!
>
> > Think about that the next time
> > you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
> > than speed limit on the road.
>
> When was the last time the senior citizen had a medical review or a
> bi-annual driving review?
>
> I'm 40, and I'm sure nobody my age has recently run off a runway... <G>

I used to have a sign over my desk that read:

"A Superior Pilot is One Who Uses his Superior Judgment to Avoid Having
to Use His Superior Skills."

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
et...
>A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:
>
>>
>> Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
>> impulse. It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
>> tend to get slower as the body ages.
>
> How much flying have you actually done? Anyone making rapid control
> movements on a 182 has other issues, wouldn't you think? Sure and steady
> works better for me!
>
>> Think about that the next time
>> you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
>> than speed limit on the road.
>
> When was the last time the senior citizen had a medical review or a
> bi-annual driving review?
>
> I'm 40, and I'm sure nobody my age has recently run off a runway... <G>

My dad ran off a runway at age 44. He claims it was a brake failure. I
suspect he just hadn't made the transition to flying a taildragger as well
as he thought.

But, as far as older pilots are concerned, if Steve Wittman had given up
flying hot-rod homebuilts at the age of 90, he wouldn't have died an
untimely death at 91 due to flutter that led to an inflight structural
failure (his wife died with him).

I would point out though, in his last air race - at age 85 - he placed
third... For his 90'th birthday, he went up and flew some aerobatics to
entertain his guests.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in message
news:QfOdnbTcksnM4DfYnZ2dnUVZ_t6qnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
> "B A R R Y" > wrote in message
> et...
>>A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Because you're dealing with reflexes and able to act on
>>> impulse. It has been medically proven that said reflexes and impulses
>>> tend to get slower as the body ages.
>>
>> How much flying have you actually done? Anyone making rapid control
>> movements on a 182 has other issues, wouldn't you think? Sure and steady
>> works better for me!
>>
>>> Think about that the next time
>>> you're stuck behind a senior citizen when they are driving 30km less
>>> than speed limit on the road.
>>
>> When was the last time the senior citizen had a medical review or a
>> bi-annual driving review?
>>
>> I'm 40, and I'm sure nobody my age has recently run off a runway... <G>
>
> My dad ran off a runway at age 44. He claims it was a brake failure. I
> suspect he just hadn't made the transition to flying a taildragger as well
> as he thought.
>
> But, as far as older pilots are concerned, if Steve Wittman had given up
> flying hot-rod homebuilts at the age of 90, he wouldn't have died an
> untimely death at 91 due to flutter that led to an inflight structural
> failure (his wife died with him).
>
> I would point out though, in his last air race - at age 85 - he placed
> third... For his 90'th birthday, he went up and flew some aerobatics to
> entertain his guests.

If Steve had attached the fabric correctley the plane would not have come
apart. His age had nothing to do with it.

>
> --
> Geoff
> The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
> remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
> When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

John Clear wrote:
> In article >,
> A Guy Called Tyketto > wrote:
>
>> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
>>of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?
>>
>
>
> We discussed pilot age on the internal newsgroups of my ISP after
> Scott Crossfield's crash, and the general feeling was he was too
> old to fly.
>
> The general feeling was "They let 84-year-olds pilot planes?" No
> specific age cut off was mentioned, but other then Crossfield/Hoover
> types, the general feeling was 80+ was too old.
>
> John
I know some very young and fit 80 year olds and some very old 60 year
olds. I don't think age is a good predictor of anything. My father
climb Mt Vesuvius at 87 or so, my mother 20 years younger stayed at the
bottom.

Margy

Margy Natalie wrote:

> I know some very young and fit 80 year olds and some very old 60 year
> olds. I don't think age is a good predictor of anything. My father
> climb Mt Vesuvius at 87 or so, my mother 20 years younger stayed at the
> bottom.
>
> Margy


As someone who is getting older, I agree wholeheartedly with you
sentiment and doubt that I will be able to climb Mt. Vesuvius when I'm
87. However, I have "climbed" Mt. Vesuvius. To put it in perspective,
one arrives at the ticket booths by bus, taxi, etc. and walks up a wide
trail to the top. The trail is 860 meters long and rises 135 meters to a
max altitude of 1180 meters. It takes 15-20 minutes at a leisurely pace.
It's more of a stroll than a climb. But kudos to your father.

Recently, RomeoMike > posted:

> Margy Natalie wrote:
>
>> I know some very young and fit 80 year olds and some very old 60 year
>> olds. I don't think age is a good predictor of anything. My father
>> climb Mt Vesuvius at 87 or so, my mother 20 years younger stayed at
>> the bottom.
>>
>> Margy
>
>
> As someone who is getting older, I agree wholeheartedly with you
> sentiment and doubt that I will be able to climb Mt. Vesuvius when I'm
> 87. However, I have "climbed" Mt. Vesuvius. To put it in perspective,
> one arrives at the ticket booths by bus, taxi, etc. and walks up a
> wide trail to the top. The trail is 860 meters long and rises 135
> meters to a max altitude of 1180 meters. It takes 15-20 minutes at a
> leisurely pace. It's more of a stroll than a climb. But kudos to
> your father.
>
I also climbed Mt. Vesuvius on this trail about 15 years ago... got to the
top, saw the tram that I could have taken instead, slapped head...

Neil

RomeoMike writes:

> As someone who is getting older, I agree wholeheartedly with you
> sentiment and doubt that I will be able to climb Mt. Vesuvius when I'm
> 87. However, I have "climbed" Mt. Vesuvius. To put it in perspective,
> one arrives at the ticket booths by bus, taxi, etc. and walks up a wide
> trail to the top. The trail is 860 meters long and rises 135 meters to a
> max altitude of 1180 meters. It takes 15-20 minutes at a leisurely pace.
> It's more of a stroll than a climb. But kudos to your father.

You might be surprised by how many people could not make that climb,
even many who are decades younger than 87. I know a lot of people who
cannot walk a mile on level ground without huffing and puffing. Many
of them are fat, but many others are just in such poor condition that
they cannot tolerate the relative workout of a brief walk.

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Mxsmanic wrote:

>
> You might be surprised by how many people could not make that climb,
> even many who are decades younger than 87. I know a lot of people who
> cannot walk a mile on level ground without huffing and puffing. Many
> of them are fat, but many others are just in such poor condition that
> they cannot tolerate the relative workout of a brief walk.
>

I've know people who can't stand at sea level or get out of bed. I've
known people who are now dead. So what! As I said in so many words, I
admire this 87 year old for being able to do it.

RomeoMike writes:

> I've know people who can't stand at sea level or get out of bed. I've
> known people who are now dead. So what! As I said in so many words, I
> admire this 87 year old for being able to do it.

He has probably taken good care of himself, although luck and genes
also play a role.

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Mxsmanic wrote:

>
> He has probably taken good care of himself, although luck and genes
> also play a role.
>
For once I actually agree with you. I would add that to take that short
climb he also needed a desire to experience life and not just sit on his
ass, as so many do.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:20:39 GMT, A Guy Called Tyketto
> wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
wrote:
>> I was about to shoot the approach into MYF when they closed the field this morning.
>>
>> When I did get to land there was a very broken C-182 on the side of Runway 23.
>>
>> Any word on what happened?
>>
>> Paul
>
> This should help you.
>
> http://www.kfmb.com/story.php?id=76584
>
> The LiveATC feed for that area is down, so there's nothing in
>the archives for it, and the SNA feed is too far north. But that
>article should help.
>
> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
>of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?

Don't know about that but we had a 30 year old put shoulders in the
wings of a 172 like that, but remained conscious and helped pull it
off the runway.

>
> BL.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:46:41 +0000 (UTC),
(John Clear) wrote:

>In article >,
>A Guy Called Tyketto > wrote:
>>
>> Not that it should be a factor, but I do wonder about the age
>>of the pilot.. How old does the general public think is too old to fly?
>>
>
>We discussed pilot age on the internal newsgroups of my ISP after
>Scott Crossfield's crash, and the general feeling was he was too
>old to fly.
>
>The general feeling was "They let 84-year-olds pilot planes?" No
>specific age cut off was mentioned, but other then Crossfield/Hoover
>types, the general feeling was 80+ was too old.

That really shows those in the discussion lack an understanding of the
system. I know 80 year olds I'd be glad to fly with and 30 some year
old instructors I won't get in a plane with.

The "Odds" are at 80 those unfit to fly are not going to pass the
physical.

If they can pass the physical and have no impairments they should be
fine to fly.

>
>John
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

RomeoMike wrote:
>
>
> Margy Natalie wrote:
>
>> I know some very young and fit 80 year olds and some very old 60 year
>> olds. I don't think age is a good predictor of anything. My father
>> climb Mt Vesuvius at 87 or so, my mother 20 years younger stayed at
>> the bottom.
>>
>> Margy
>
>
>
> As someone who is getting older, I agree wholeheartedly with you
> sentiment and doubt that I will be able to climb Mt. Vesuvius when I'm
> 87. However, I have "climbed" Mt. Vesuvius. To put it in perspective,
> one arrives at the ticket booths by bus, taxi, etc. and walks up a wide
> trail to the top. The trail is 860 meters long and rises 135 meters to a
> max altitude of 1180 meters. It takes 15-20 minutes at a leisurely pace.
> It's more of a stroll than a climb. But kudos to your father.
I wasn't there, my mother made it sound like a big deal. He could out
run me when I was 15 and he was 73!

Margy

Margy Natalie wrote:

> I wasn't there, my mother made it sound like a big deal. He could out
> run me when I was 15 and he was 73!
>
> Margy

As I said, I doubt I'll be doing it at that age. It is a big deal.

"Margy Natalie" > wrote

> I wasn't there, my mother made it sound like a big deal. He could out run
> me when I was 15 and he was 73!

My grandfather was the same way. He could outwork me, anytime.

When I was about 12, we put an in-ground swimming pool in our back yard. We
had a backhoe dig most of it, but my dad thought it would be a good idea to
first strip the sod off of the work area, and dig out the top foot or so of
topsoil, to fill in a ditch in the front yard.

We dug that dirt, about 30' X 55', one shovel at a time, into a trailer,
then unloaded it one shovel at a time. That is somewhere around 90 tons of
dirt moved, with grandpa, my 10 year old brother, and me. I'm sure my 70
year old grandpa moved well over half of it.

He could work all day long, with barely a pause. He knew exactly how to
pace himself to do that. He used to be a lumberjack in his younger years.
That tells you something, if you know much about the early lumberjacks. :-)

I admire that generation, now mostly gone. I wish the younger kids would
magically get just half of their work ethic.
--
Jim in NC

On 2007-01-28, Morgans > wrote:
> I admire that generation, now mostly gone. I wish the younger kids would
> magically get just half of their work ethic.

"The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love
to chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants of
the household..."
-- Hesoid (8th century BC)

Plenty of people in this generation and the next have equal work ethic.
Plenty of people of your grandfather's generation were lazy or
dishonest. "Kids of today..." comments are merely a symptom of getting
old, I'm afraid!

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

"Dylan Smith" > wrote

> Plenty of people in this generation and the next have equal work ethic.
> Plenty of people of your grandfather's generation were lazy or
> dishonest. "Kids of today..." comments are merely a symptom of getting
> old, I'm afraid!

Much of what you say has a lot of truth in it. If you think that there is
no difference between now and 20 years ago, and that it is just in the
viewer's perception, you are sadly mistaken.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans writes:

> Much of what you say has a lot of truth in it. If you think that there is
> no difference between now and 20 years ago, and that it is just in the
> viewer's perception, you are sadly mistaken.

If there is a difference from one generation to the next, it can only
be the result of a change in the way the previous generation raised
its children.

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On 2007-01-30, Morgans > wrote:
> Much of what you say has a lot of truth in it. If you think that there is
> no difference between now and 20 years ago, and that it is just in the
> viewer's perception, you are sadly mistaken.

Of course there are differences, but in terms of "youth of today" being
worse than "youth of yesterday", then I maintain that really there is no
difference at all, and griping about it is merely showing one's age.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

"Dylan Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2007-01-30, Morgans > wrote:
>> Much of what you say has a lot of truth in it. If you think that there
>> is
>> no difference between now and 20 years ago, and that it is just in the
>> viewer's perception, you are sadly mistaken.
>
> Of course there are differences, but in terms of "youth of today" being
> worse than "youth of yesterday", then I maintain that really there is no
> difference at all, and griping about it is merely showing one's age.

When I re-entered teaching, about 15 years ago, I never saw the frequent
lack of respect for others, and extending that, to other's property.

Honesty is non-existent, for an ever increasing percentage of our youth.
There are still many kids with the same high standards as the youth of
yesterday, but I see a higher percentage of the ones that have no integrity.

The lack of respect for others extends to other's property. Many of this
increasing "lower values group" destroy other people's property, just to see
if they can. They keep on until they find a way to succeed. They think it
is funny, and sit back and laugh about it. It disturbs me.

> I maintain that really there is no
> difference at all, and griping about it is merely showing one's age.

You need to observe in our public schools for a few weeks. You WILL change
your mind.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans writes:

> Honesty is non-existent, for an ever increasing percentage of our youth.
> There are still many kids with the same high standards as the youth of
> yesterday, but I see a higher percentage of the ones that have no integrity.

Because they are raised by parents who are the same way. Stupid
people reproduce much more rapidly than smart people, and in an
affluent society, stupid people increase in numbers because natural
selection is less likely to cull them from the herd.

> The lack of respect for others extends to other's property. Many of this
> increasing "lower values group" destroy other people's property, just to see
> if they can. They keep on until they find a way to succeed. They think it
> is funny, and sit back and laugh about it. It disturbs me.

That's how they were raised, and they know there are no penalties as
long as they are under the age of majority, or sometimes even beyond
that, since prisons are already filled with people who have committed
drug offenses.

> You need to observe in our public schools for a few weeks. You WILL change
> your mind.

The ancient Greeks said roughly the same thing.

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On 2007-01-31, Morgans > wrote:
>> I maintain that really there is no
>> difference at all, and griping about it is merely showing one's age.
>
> You need to observe in our public schools for a few weeks. You WILL change
> your mind.

Once again, I refer you to the Greek fellow of 8 BC.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Dylan Smith > wrote:
> On 2007-01-31, Morgans > wrote:
>>> I maintain that really there is no
>>> difference at all, and griping about it is merely showing one's age.
>>
>> You need to observe in our public schools for a few weeks. You WILL
>> change your mind.
>
> Once again, I refer you to the Greek fellow of 8 BC.

Hesiod (8th century BC), Plato (4th century BC), and Peter the Hermit (13th
century AD) all have statements attributed to them on the "The trouble with
youngsters today..." at the link here:

http://www.answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=408989

Another relevant link:
http://plato-dialogues.org/faq/faq003.htm